Glasgow · 1867

Lister Kills the Germs in Wounds

Portrait of Joseph Lister
Joseph ListerPhotographer unknown, 1902

In the hospitals of the day, a broken bone that pierces the skin often means death: the wound festers, and gangrene sets in. Surgeons blame the bad air of their wards. The English surgeon Joseph Lister, working in Glasgow, reads Pasteur and draws a different conclusion: wounds go bad the way broth does, because germs get into them. He dresses wounds with carbolic acid, which kills germs, and washes his hands and instruments in it.

In 1867 he reports his first cases: open fractures that would once have meant amputation heal cleanly. Three years later he counts the deaths after amputations in his wards: 16 of 35 patients before he began, 6 of 40 since, in the same wards with the same air.

Twenty years earlier, in Vienna, Semmelweis saved mothers the same way, with chlorine on the doctors’ hands, and was ignored, though he blamed decaying matter, not living germs. Lister doesn’t know of him yet, but his germs answer Semmelweis’s decaying matter all the same.

Idea by Joseph Lister​·​#5778

Wounds fester for the same reason broth goes bad: germs get into them from outside. Kill the germs, on the wound, the instruments, and the surgeon’s hands, and wounds heal clean.

Criticism of #5768 by Joseph Lister​·​#5779

In my wards, 16 of 35 patients died after amputations before I began killing germs with carbolic acid, and 6 of 40 since. The air is the same as before; only the germs are gone.

Criticism of #5772 by Joseph Lister​·​#5780

Decay doesn’t come about by itself. As Pasteur showed, it’s the work of germs, living things that get in from outside and multiply. What spreads infection is the germs, not decaying matter as such.

The state of the discussion

The miasma theory now has four pending criticisms, and Semmelweis’s theory of childbed fever one. Lister’s germ theory of infection has none, so it’s rationally adoptable, like Snow’s waterborne cholera.

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Sources:

  • Lister, “On a New Method of Treating Compound Fracture, Abscess, &c.”, The Lancet 89 (1867), March to July
  • Lister, “On the Antiseptic Principle in the Practice of Surgery”, The Lancet 90 (1867), 353–356
  • Lister, “On the Effects of the Antiseptic System of Treatment upon the Salubrity of a Surgical Hospital”, The Lancet 95 (1870), 4–6, 40–42

Researched and written with the help of AI, from the sources named. AI can make mistakes. Veritula doesn’t claim perfect historical accuracy; the sources are there to check against.

The full discussion

Was It in the Air? The Killers Too Small to See

Dennis Hackethal started this discussion 1 day ago.

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Physicians blamed disease on foul air while their own hands spread it from patient to patient. A few doubters found the real cause: living things too small to see. Their discovery has saved countless lives.


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The discussion as it was in 1867. Chronicle discussions are read-only. Jump to the present
Edwin Chadwick’s avatar
Edwin ChadwickHistorical profile​·​#5768​·​1842​·​AI-assisted

Diseases like cholera and fevers come from miasma: bad air given off by rotting filth, sewage, and swamps. Clean away the filth and its smell, and the disease goes with it.

Criticized4
Ignaz Semmelweis’s avatar
Ignaz SemmelweisHistorical profile​·​#5770​·​May 1847​·​AI-assisted

Childbed fever kills mothers four times as often in the doctors’ clinic as in the midwives’ clinic next door, though both breathe the same air. Since the doctors began washing their hands in chlorine after dissecting corpses, deaths have fallen from 18 in a hundred births to 2. The cause comes on the doctors’ hands, not from the air both clinics share.

Criticism of #5768
John Snow’s avatar
John SnowHistorical profile​·​#5774​·​September 8, 1854​·​AI-assisted

The Broad Street outbreak’s deaths cluster around one pump, and those spared drank other water: the workhouse its own well, the brewery’s men their beer. Bad air would have spared no one in the same streets.

Criticism of #5768
John Snow’s avatar
John SnowHistorical profile​·​#5775​·​1855​·​AI-assisted

Where two water companies supply the same streets, houses drinking Thames water taken below London’s sewers lose more than eight times as many people to cholera as houses drinking water taken above them. Same streets, same air, different water.

Criticism of #5768
Joseph Lister’s avatar
Joseph ListerHistorical profile​·​#5779​·​1867​·​AI-assisted

In my wards, 16 of 35 patients died after amputations before I began killing germs with carbolic acid, and 6 of 40 since. The air is the same as before; only the germs are gone.

Criticism of #5768
Ignaz Semmelweis’s avatar
Ignaz SemmelweisHistorical profile​·​#5772​·​May 1847​·​AI-assisted
2nd of 2 versions

Childbed fever comes from decaying matter, from corpses or from the living, like a cancer or a festering wound, carried to the mothers on hands and instruments, and now and then through a ward’s air. Wash hands in chlorinated lime between every examination, and the fever goes.

Criticized1
Joseph Lister’s avatar
Joseph ListerHistorical profile​·​#5780​·​1867​·​AI-assisted

Decay doesn’t come about by itself. As Pasteur showed, it’s the work of germs, living things that get in from outside and multiply. What spreads infection is the germs, not decaying matter as such.

Criticism of #5772
John Snow’s avatar
John SnowHistorical profile​·​#5773​·​September 8, 1854​·​AI-assisted

Cholera is caused by a poison that multiplies inside its victims, leaves them in their waste, and spreads when others swallow it, mostly in water fouled by sewage. “For the morbid matter of cholera having the property of reproducing its own kind, must necessarily have some sort of structure, most likely that of a cell.”

Félix Pouchet’s avatar
Félix PouchetHistorical profile​·​#5776​·​1862​·​AI-assisted

Microscopic life arises on its own in broths and infusions, from the decaying matter in them, whenever conditions allow.

Criticized1
Louis Pasteur’s avatar
Louis PasteurHistorical profile​·​#5777​·​1862​·​AI-assisted

Broth boiled in a flask with a long, bent neck stays free of life, though air reaches it, because the germs carried by the air’s dust settle in the bend. Tip the flask so that the broth touches the bend, and it soon teems with microbes. They come from germs, not from the broth.

Criticism of #5776
Joseph Lister’s avatar
Joseph ListerHistorical profile​·​#5778​·​1867​·​AI-assisted

Wounds fester for the same reason broth goes bad: germs get into them from outside. Kill the germs, on the wound, the instruments, and the surgeon’s hands, and wounds heal clean.

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