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Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis HackethalOP revised about 2 months ago·#2459
2nd of 4 versions

Feature idea: pay people to criticize your idea.

You submit an idea with a ‘criticism bounty’ of ten bucks per criticism received, say.

The amount should be arbitrarily customizable.

CriticismCriticized1
Benjamin Davies’s avatar
Benjamin Davies, about 2 months ago·#2467

How do you ensure the criticism is worthy of the bounty?

Criticism of #2459Criticized1
Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis HackethalOP revised about 2 months ago·#2524
2nd of 2 versions

I’m not sure yet, but I’m playing with the idea that the criticism can’t have any pending counter-criticisms by some deadline. Each counter-criticism could reset the deadline to give everyone ample time to respond.

Criticism of #2467Criticized1
Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis HackethalOP, about 2 months ago·#2472

But then bad actors could always submit arbitrary counter-criticisms just before the deadline to avoid paying.

Criticism of #2524Criticized1
Benjamin Davies’s avatar
Benjamin Davies, about 2 months ago·#2476

The timeframe to address the criticism should start counting down from the moment the criticism is made, rather than the original post. So it would be a continuous thing rather than a single deadline for everyone.

The OP could end the bounty if there are no outstanding criticisms and he no longer seeks a solution.

Criticism of #2472Criticized1
Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis HackethalOP revised about 2 months ago·#2510
2nd of 2 versions

I suppose that would make it a bit harder for bad actors because they’d need to monitor multiple deadlines, but they could still submit arbitrary counter-criticisms just in time to avoid paying. Or is there something I’m missing?

Criticism of #2476
Benjamin Davies’s avatar
Benjamin Davies, revised by Dennis HackethalOP about 2 months ago·#2504
2nd of 2 versions

I would have it that each criticism and counter-criticism resets the countdown on the bounty deadline. This means everyone involved is given fair time to respond at each turn.

Criticism of #2510Criticized3
Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis HackethalOP, about 2 months ago·#2506

Then a bounty can go on indefinitely.

Criticism of #2504Criticized1
Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis HackethalOP, about 2 months ago·#2507

That is simply an extension of the fact that solutions to problems don’t come reliably.

Criticism of #2506
Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis HackethalOP, about 2 months ago·#2512

If you submit a criticism, you won’t want to wait indefinitely to get paid just because others are keeping the discussion going in a different branch.

Criticism of #2504
Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis HackethalOP revised about 2 months ago·#2515
2nd of 2 versions

Sorry but I don’t see how that solves the bad-actor problem. Bad actors would still be able to draw out the discussion to avoid paying, wouldn’t they?

Criticism of #2504 Battle tested
Benjamin Davies’s avatar
Benjamin Davies revised about 2 months ago·#2522
3rd of 3 versions

Yes, but bad actors are a separate problem to solve (as you have alluded to in #2513, where you mention “good citizens”).

The problem we are addressing here is giving people a fair time window to respond to criticisms after they are published.

Edit: after reviewing the thread, I see that you were more focused on the bad actors problem while I was more focused on giving people fair time to respond. I believe what I am saying still stands, but maybe it belongs somewhere higher up the chain.

Criticism of #2515Criticized1
Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis HackethalOP, about 2 months ago·#2526

Superseded by #2524.

Criticism of #2522
Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis HackethalOP, about 2 hours ago·#3446

Card authorizations will necessarily have a deadline.

Criticism of #2504
Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis HackethalOP, about 2 months ago·#2513

Idea: when you create a bounty, you set the amount you’re willing to pay per criticism and a ceiling for the total you’re willing to spend (no. of crits * amount per crit).

Your card is authorized for twice the ceiling. In addition, there’s a button to report abuse. If you’re a good citizen, you’ll be charged the ceiling, at most. But if you’re found to submit arbitrary criticisms to avoid paying, the bounty stops early and your card is charged the full authorization.

Criticism of #2472
Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis HackethalOP, about 2 hours ago·#3440

That doesn’t address the possibility of others submitting arbitrary criticisms just before the deadline.

Criticism of #2513Criticized2
Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis HackethalOP, about 2 hours ago·#3447

What incentive would others have to submit arbitrary criticisms? They’re not the ones paying.

Criticism of #3440
Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis HackethalOP revised about 2 hours ago·#3449
2nd of 2 versions

People who have submitted criticisms hope to get paid. They have an incentive to submit arbitrary counter-criticisms to others’ criticisms to increase their own share of the pie.

Criticism of #3447Criticized1
Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis HackethalOP, about 1 hour ago·#3451

Although there’s a risk for abuse, that’s a feature: it will lead to lively discussions among critics.

Criticism of #3449
Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis HackethalOP, about 1 hour ago·#3452

There could still be a button to report abuse. People found to abuse deadlines could become ineligible for payouts and excluded from participating in future bounties.

Criticism of #3440
Benjamin Davies’s avatar
Benjamin Davies, about 2 months ago·#2475

Yes, that was what I was thinking. Presumably the OP could set their own deadline timeframe too.

Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis HackethalOP, about 3 hours ago·#3431

The bounty initiator’s card will have to be authorized when starting the bounty. Card authorizations presumably have a deadline, so resetting the deadline won’t be an option.

Criticism of #2524 Battle tested
Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis HackethalOP revised about 3 hours ago·#3433
2nd of 2 versions

Couldn’t I let the initial authorization expire and then re-authorize the card?

Criticism of #3431Criticized1
Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis HackethalOP, about 3 hours ago·#3435

Maybe, but what if re-authorization fails? Then nobody gets paid.

Criticism of #3433
Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis HackethalOP, about 3 hours ago·#3436

What if Veritula charges the card immediately and holds the funds?

Criticism of #3431Criticized1
Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis HackethalOP, about 3 hours ago·#3437

That seems like a tough sell. Users might not be willing to spend money without knowing whether anyone will submit any criticisms.

Criticism of #3436
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Dennis HackethalOP, about 3 hours ago·#3438

Could offer refunds.

Criticism of #3437Criticized2
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Dennis HackethalOP, about 3 hours ago·#3439

I believe Veritula would lose money on refunds.

Criticism of #3438
Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis HackethalOP revised about 1 hour ago·#3454
2nd of 2 versions

Would still be a hassle for users to track refunds.

Criticism of #3438
Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis HackethalOP, about 1 hour ago·#3456

What if every criticism on the bountied idea creates a separate authorization? The bounty initiator would add their card on file and then every time someone submits a criticism, the card is authorized for the per-criticism amount.

Criticism of #3431Criticized2
Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis HackethalOP, about 1 hour ago·#3457

While this idea sounded promising at first, I now realize it just moves the deadline problem one level underneath the bountied idea.

Criticism of #3456
Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis HackethalOP, about 1 hour ago·#3458

This idea introduces additional complexity and edge cases. For example, what happens if authorization fails? Need something simpler for an MVP version of this feature.

Criticism of #3456
Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis HackethalOP, 1 minute ago·#3459

There could be a grace period. For example, 24 hours after the bounty ends, no new criticisms can be posted on the bountied idea. That way, the bounty initiator and others have time to review pending criticisms.

Criticism of #2467
Dennis Hackethal’s avatar

What happens if they neglect to review pending criticisms?

Criticism of #3459Criticized1
Dennis Hackethal’s avatar

Then all pending criticisms automatically receive equal payouts.

Criticism of #3460
Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis HackethalOP, about 1 month ago·#2812

Superseded by #2811. This comment was generated automatically.

Criticism of #2459